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Author Topic: 12 Greatest Players in NBA history according to Bbills  (Read 294 times)
Bbills
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« on: January 13, 2010, 01:31:34 PM »

As many of you know I have been reading Bills Simmons the Book of Basketball and in it he Tears down the Current Hall of Fame and Creates his own using a 5 Level Pyramid System that Ranks Players according to there place in the Leagues History.

He Created these Levels as a way for basketball Fans to Discuss and interact with each other as they place players in there level. Heres how he breaks down each Level

Level 1- Just Made it Hall of Famers
Level 2- No Doubt about it Hall of Famer that couldnt Crack Level 3
Level 3- No Doubt Hall of Famers Ranked among the Best For a Few Years No MVP Winner can Drop Below level 3.
Level 4- Level 3 guys only theres something Inherently Greater about them. For example Are they in discussion for "Best of all time", Were they just Dominate at times, Will you always Remember watching them Play ect.
Level 5- The Pantheon the 12 Greatest Players of all time.

a few example of each Level so you are not confused.

Level 1- Gail Goodrich, Robert Horry , Vince Carter, Ray Allen , Reggie Miller
Level 2-Robert Parish, Bernard King Dwyane Wade, Clyde Drexler
Level 3- Kevin Mchale, Walt Frazier, George Gervin , David Robinson , Rick Barry
Level 4- Isiah Thomas , Kevin Garnett, Bob Cousey,  Barkley , Malone
Level 5- Bird, Jordan , Russell

Now i have Finished these Chapters in the Book and will be Creating my own Pantheon  as i believe eveyone should have there Own.

Without Further ado Here is BBills Pantheon of the 12 greatest players of all Time.(simmons Rank in  ()

12 Elgin Baylor (14)

2 Things about Elgin that Strike me. 1st in 62  Elgin was 4th in voting(3-18-13) the year Oscar averaged a Trip Doub, Wilt averaged 50ppg. 3 1st place Votes that year. But heres the Kicker Elgin Played only 48 Games that year because he was in the Army Reserves and had to forfill his obligations to our country. He couldnt practice with the team and could only Play on Weekends. and had to be back on base by monday morning for Roll call. This is a Time before Private planes and non stop Flights just imaging what  that did to him. yet he still averaged 38-19-5. 2nd If he had not played in the Russell 60's he would have won 2-3 Championships. Runner up on 8 Times Damn. Its a Travisty he never one a Chip if he had Everyone would have seen him in a different Light maybe even a top 10 Panteon Guy.

11 John Havlicek (13)

One of the most Underrated Players of all time He did it all. Kinda the 1st Lebron James he could play 3  Positions.8-0 In Final Apperences the Dude was Clutch. Heres what Simmons writes about him.." Other then Jordan and Bird nobody has more Memorable Clutch Moments, Other then West and Magic  Nobody did a better Job of Reinventing his game as his years passes, Behind Bird, Magic Russell and Duncan, he might rank 5th on the Winablilty Scale, only Russell and Jordan came Thru More times for Chip teams." I rest my case he is in my Pantheon.

10 Oscar Robertson(9)

One of the Greatest Talents of all time. The Dude averaged a Triple Double 1 season. Amazing.  So why did i rank him so Low  2 Reasons. 1 he didnt know the Secret (read the book to find out the Secrect) 2. He was Kind of a Prick lol.  Threw is Teamate under the Bus whenever possible. only cared about himself and his stats. Only won a Chip Riding Kareems Coattails . He would be Ranked 4 or 5 spots higher if he knew how to win. Oscars Greats years were from 61-64 then his Stats Dip mainly because after 1964 The Talent Level in the NBA Jumped as more and more Black Athletes were allowed in. So Oscar Dominated a Delullud talent league. Was still Great after 64 But never reached those levels again

9 Wilt Chamberlin (6)

Personally im not a Fan of Wilts He is like Oscar didnt know the Secret. Cared More about his Stats then Winning which is a Big No-no in my book . Heck the 1st year they counted assists He made it a point to pass just to win the Ast Cat. One of the most Un-Clutch players of all time. could never get it done in big moments (once sat out last 5 minutes of a game 7). Its not surprising that the year he averaged 50Ppg game he ended up being 2nd in the MVP voting to Russell. Traded Twice in his Prime(would that happen to Jordan , Bird or Magic?) In Fact when The Warriors Traded him to Philly he was 1st offered to the Lakers. Lakers Ownership took a players vote on whether they should trade for him or not and the players Voted NO. thats Right West and Elgin didnt want to play with Wilt WOW.. This guy Could have been #1 on this list if he really wanted to But he just didnt get it..

8 Hakeem Olajuwon(10)

One of the most Dominate Players of all time. One of the most Gifted Big men Ever He could do it all.  Everything you want in a Center hands Down. HE beat up on every Big man while playing. Shaq Killed him in the Final Same with Big Pat, Destroyed David Robinson, Killed Kareem in the 80's he didnt just outplay these guys he made them his bish. Simmons Created a Stat to show how Dominate Hakeem was called Stocks (Steals +Blocks) he had 300+ Stock 12 times Nearly Double anyone else. he had 550 in 1990 thats right 550 Blocks and Steals in 1 Season DAMN. One of the Few guys you could put in today game or in the 60's and he would still be Dominate.

7 Tim Duncan (7)

Let me Start off by Saying this.. THE GREATEST POWER FOWARD OF ALL TIME. The Big Fundmental Like Havlicek Super Underrated he is so good and so Quiet about it. One of the most unhearald stars for all time.If he was Loud like Shaq or a Media Darling like Lebron how differntly would we think of this guy. Probably a top 3 or 4 talent i know.   Since the day he stepped into the NBA he has been a Top 10 player Hands down. One of the Smartest players of all times he know exactly what he needs to do. If its beat you inside he will do it, Get his Teamates involve he will,  He knows the Secret Lives and Breathes the Secret. Realize this How many Players that he has played with will end up in the Hall of Fame .. David Robinson Ok who else? Parker? Maybe but Prob not , Manu Nope Anyone else? I guess you could say Big Shot Bob but he only was there for 1 Reason and 1 reason only Playoff time.. Ill say this and will stand by it .. Duncan is Our Generation Bill Russell If he had the Talent he need around him he could have had the same type of Career.

6 Jerry West(Cool

They Made the Logo after this guy does anymore need to be said about him? Remember how i said Wilt was traded twice during his Prime.. Do you think the Lakers ever would have traded this guy? HELL NO . West was a such a great player for so many years. The Call him Mr. Clutch for a Reason he Got it done in big games.. Ya he couldnt pass Boston in the 60's but not becasue of him . Dude average 29.3 PPG during the playoffs. Unlike Oscar who took a Hit when more talent joined the league West's Never took a Dip in Averages after 64 Infact didnt Peak until his 10th season Oscar Peaked in his 4th .. Argueably the Greatest Defender of all time .. Steals where recorded until 74 Wests final season he only played 2 months that year before blowing out his knee and ending his career in  31 games  he had 81 Steals  just think how many Steals he had in the 60's if they recorded them..

5 Kareem Abdul Jabbar/Lew Alcindor(3)

We are in the Top 5 Not much needs to be said from here on Out.. Kareem Was a Transent player Played 20 Years 6 Time MVP award Player Winning them 9 years apart 71-80 Only player to Be Good for So Long He won the Final MVP in 71 then again in 85 WOW. The problem i have with Kareem was it took Magic Joining the laker to breath life into the 2nd half of his Career Without Magic I dotn think we see Kareem in the same light which is why i cant rank him higher then Magic.

4 Larry Bird(5)

Larry Legand what can i say about him. He is/Was the Secret .. He was given the Littlest and made the most of it.. an unathletic White Guy who became one of the Greatest players in NBA history. No many Great moments to count on 1 hand. The Knock on Larry his back giving out If his back had not failed him how much longer would his career have been? Probably 4 or 5 more years instead of having 9 Dominate seasons he has 13 or 14. Lets not Forget 1 thing Larry Played in the Era where there was the Most Talent. Kareem, Magic, WIlkins, Jordan , Malone, Stockton, Hakeem , Big Pat on and on and on and when you talk about 80's NBA he is one of 2 players that come to mind 1st.. The next is #3 on my list

3 Magic Johnson(4)

One of the Greatest Basketball players off all time College and Pro's , He could play every position PG, SG, SF, PF and Yes played Center once thats how good he was. 5 Chips and 4 Finals Losses he carred his time to an Amazing 9 Finals He played 13 Super Season only to be Derailed by HIV. had he not he prob give us 3 or 4 more Super season. Dude was a 6'9 PG a freak of nature.

2 Bill Russell (2)

Greatest Winner of all time 11 Chips 8 in a row.2 Chips as a Player Coach  one of the most respected players of all time. Say what you want about his Stats he didnt care about that the only thing he wanted to do was Win and thats what he did. Just like KG helped the Celtics get to the Chip Russell did it for his whole Career. He played best when it mattered Most 10-0 In game 7's

1Michael Jordan(1)

I dont have to Write much here cuz nobody is disagrees. Simply the Best like Hakeeem put him in the 60's he dominates ,70 ,80,90,2030's and he still would be the best. Nobody will ever be better nobody will ever.. EVER so lets stop the who is the next Jordan Debate because nobody ever will.


 

Dont agree with my List Post Why what you dont agree with . Give us your list thats the Whole Reason im writing this to start Debates and Discuss the sport that we all Love..

BTW i need a break ill be posting and Almost made it list later on today or tomorrow lol this took me 3 hours to do lol.
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2010, 01:57:44 PM »

is this your list or bill simmons list?
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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2010, 01:59:17 PM »

is this your list or bill simmons list?
My Personal List .. in () is where Simmons Ranks them.. For example he ranks Baylor 14 but i rank him 12..
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2010, 02:20:38 PM »

I'm only halfway through the pyramid chapter, so I'll check this post out after I'm done reading that part.
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2010, 02:33:16 PM »

im getting the book this weekend while im laid up aftter surgery ill knock it out
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2010, 02:52:00 PM »

props for the write-up man...

one question: do i have to read the book to find out the "secret"? or will somebody please PM it tome?

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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2010, 04:29:27 PM »

props for the write-up man...

one question: do i have to read the book to find out the "secret"? or will somebody please PM it tome?


Buy the Book  Wink
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2010, 04:47:30 PM »

props for the write-up man...

one question: do i have to read the book to find out the "secret"? or will somebody please PM it tome?


Buy the Book  Wink

Props bbills, nice read.  I dont have plans to buy the book right now but I might.  I read all day at work, so reading is not as much fun for me when I'm home.  But perhaps one day.
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2010, 04:50:23 PM »

So everyone agrees with my List ?? WOW
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2010, 04:54:43 PM »

So everyone agrees with my List ?? WOW
i was surprised to see wilt so low but after your explanation, i can't disagree...

and i really want this book now even more than ever!!
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2010, 12:14:20 AM »

Finally finished Bill's 96-player ranking.

Let me say that the parts on MJ are quite possibly my fav part of the book. He captures him PERFECTLY, even with the story about Juanita. I plan to read it again tonight. It was that good.


On to your list:

Kareem has got to be #2 or #3. My dad used to downplay Kareem when I was younger by telling me that Karrem only had the numbers because he played for 20 years. But think about it: Kareem played at a high level for almost 20 years. That's incredible. We see so many players having to hang it up around 35-36, but Kareem was killing it in the league's most important position past the age of 40.
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2010, 09:50:50 AM »

Finally finished Bill's 96-player ranking.

Let me say that the parts on MJ are quite possibly my fav part of the book. He captures him PERFECTLY, even with the story about Juanita. I plan to read it again tonight. It was that good.


On to your list:

Kareem has got to be #2 or #3. My dad used to downplay Kareem when I was younger by telling me that Karrem only had the numbers because he played for 20 years. But think about it: Kareem played at a high level for almost 20 years. That's incredible. We see so many players having to hang it up around 35-36, but Kareem was killing it in the league's most important position past the age of 40.
this is why this book is so great and everyone here should read it. Every can read the same thing and have differnt opinions on it that's what I love about it. Nobody is wrong every just rates and ranks guys differently.

On jordan yes it was a great read on him he captures jordan so perfectly. Funny thing if you saw the link mello post aboout from sports nation about the best posterizing dunks and the finals was jordan vs pippen dunking on ewing. If you rewatch the jordan clip he gets around oakley with such ease that the 1st thing to pop into my head was the jordan part in the book. Maybe oak let his buddy thru a little easier then he would someone else lol

On kareem my reason for knocking him down to 5 is because he needed another pantheon guy(oscar and magic)to get over the hump.its just seems to me he couldn't  put a team on his back and carry them to the finals.  Now ill go back and reread kareems section incase I missed something and when I get home ill research kareems teams between oscar and magic. I guess the same case could be made for magic cuz he had kareem hmmmm? Do I need to rethink birds ranking lol jk

Show I'd love to see your pantheon when you have time to get one done.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 09:55:21 AM by Optimus » Logged


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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2010, 10:15:52 AM »

Finally finished Bill's 96-player ranking.

Let me say that the parts on MJ are quite possibly my fav part of the book. He captures him PERFECTLY, even with the story about Juanita. I plan to read it again tonight. It was that good.


On to your list:

Kareem has got to be #2 or #3. My dad used to downplay Kareem when I was younger by telling me that Karrem only had the numbers because he played for 20 years. But think about it: Kareem played at a high level for almost 20 years. That's incredible. We see so many players having to hang it up around 35-36, but Kareem was killing it in the league's most important position past the age of 40.
this is why this book is so great and everyone here should read it. Every can read the same thing and have differnt opinions on it that's what I love about it. Nobody is wrong every just rates and ranks guys differently.

On jordan yes it was a great read on him he captures jordan so perfectly. Funny thing if you saw the link mello post aboout from sports nation about the best posterizing dunks and the finals was jordan vs pippen dunking on ewing. If you rewatch the jordan clip he gets around oakley with such ease that the 1st thing to pop into my head was the jordan part in the book. Maybe oak let his buddy thru a little easier then he would someone else lol

On kareem my reason for knocking him down to 5 is because he needed another pantheon guy(oscar and magic)to get over the hump.its just seems to me he couldn't  put a team on his back and carry them to the finals.  Now ill go back and reread kareems section incase I missed something and when I get home ill research kareems teams between oscar and magic. I guess the same case could be made for magic cuz he had kareem hmmmm? Do I need to rethink birds ranking lol jk

Show I'd love to see your pantheon when you have time to get one done.

can't say my list would be too much different than yours. I hate trying to rank guys I never watched play, which means I'd have to track down some old film. I hardly have time for FS, let alone breaking down classic games.

If anything, I'd have to do a top-12 of guys that I actually watched. That could be interesting.
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« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2010, 03:03:47 PM »

I have been reading Bills Simmons the Book of Basketball as well and there is another individual that posses the "secret"..........DRACE
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« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2010, 03:15:38 PM »

I dunno who this DRACE guy is but i hear he's a PROBLEM!!!!
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